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GotZJ

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
My original idea was to swap my Dana30/Dana44a to JK Dana 44 font/rear, but I'm having issues finding one for a good price. I really don't wont to buy front for $2800, rear $1800. Now, what are my other options? My end goal is to run 35"s. I want to get to the trails and not worry about axle breakage. I'm starting to consider Waggy. I'm sure there are people on this forum who did the swap. How much will the rebuild coast me if i do the work myself. Also which rear axle would best match up with Waggy? My overall budget for axle build front/rear is $3000.
 
Search local craigslist is always a good place to start. Where you located?

I'm lucky because a guy from our off road group is going to sell me a ford 44 front and 60 rear for 500 bucks all in great condition.

The thing that is killing me is all the other costs, such as wheels and tires themselves. Not to mention i plan on doing the 4 links front and rear custom, so i need the joints, tubing, inserts, and metal to make brackets for them. Plus lockers, all that jazz. It's really killing me, i'm to the point I have a stock zj, and instead of upgrading to 33's and doing all that I think i'm just going to wait until i can afford to do everything at once.
 
How hard are you on things? For 35's, I would strongly consider the hp30 and 8.8 route. A 44 has the same weaknesses as the 30---shafts. Same shafts. 44 has stronger ring gear, tubes, ball joints etc, but the stuff you break most of the time are joints and shafts which the 30 and 44 share.

But, to answer your question, probably the best rear axle matches you can find for a waggy 44 would be a waggy 44 rear, XJ 44 rear, ford 8.8, rodeo 44, or a toy 8". Are waggy 44's 6 lug? I can't remember, but if they are then the toy 8 might be the ticket. Those little bastards are tough and cheap as hell.
 
I think the waggy 44s are 6 lugs.

FWIW, I am looking to run 35s as well, and my route is 95 or newer 8.8 out of an explorer (these years have 31 splines and disc brakes), and a front HP30 out of an XJ. I plan on runnting 4.88 gears in both, and I think this will be the perfect combo for 35s.
 
How hard are you on things? For 35's, I would strongly consider the hp30 and 8.8 route. A 44 has the same weaknesses as the 30---shafts. Same shafts. 44 has stronger ring gear, tubes, ball joints etc, but the stuff you break most of the time are joints and shafts which the 30 and 44 share.

Cody, you really despise 44's, dont you?

The JK 44's have 30 spline inners and 32 spline outers, captive unit bearings, ring gear is larger in size than all other 44's, high pinion, pinion shaft and bearings closer to D60 size, hybrid axle U-joints are closer in size to a 1350 joint, and larger knuckles than D30's and previous new generation D44's (TJ Rubicon). The one thing I will give you is... tube diameter on the front axle. Larger than pre-JK D30's but still relatively small. Easily remedied by a truss and/or sleeves.

These axles were a steal when they first came on the market. I paid just over $2800.00 for the pair shipped to my door. With the prices today (over $5,000) and the fact that the front axle now sells with no brakes, unit bearings, or outer knuckles... Not so much of a deal anymore.
 
Cody, you really despise 44's, dont you?
Yes, for the most part. If you've broken as many 44 shafts as I have and lost as many trail hours as a result, then you would share my enthusiasm :D

But the irony that my current ZJ has a ford hp44 up front doesn't escape me. ...but it does have warns and CTM's and had it been my project initially that money would have gone to a 60.


These axles were a steal when they first came on the market. I paid just over $2800.00 for the pair shipped to my door. With the prices today (over $5,000) and the fact that the front axle now sells with no brakes, unit bearings, or outer knuckles... Not so much of a deal anymore.
That isn't, or rather wasn't, a terrible deal for what you got. But now, $5k for 44's no matter how fancy they are, is akin to running through the lions den at the zoo in a bacon-kini. Stupid. You can easily build a front 60 and a matching rear for that price.

I've seen lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of d30's out there on 35's (or even bigger on 4 bangers YJ/TJ's) that hold up pretty dang well. Granted, part of the problem is that people start breaking 30 parts and read in a magazine somewhere that a 44 is a stronger axle, so they swap that in so they can be harder on things. They go out and start hitting harder lines thinking they have upgraded their weak link, when in reality they upgraded some other things, but the weak link is still the same thing (jk 44's excluded I suppose, per your data). So people might be more compelled to wheel harder with 44's and that might be the reason I run into so much more 44 carnage.

I think a ZJ with a 30/8.8 or 30/44 combo, 5-6" of lift, and 35's is a perfect rig for wheelin. If you need more than that then honestly (and I'll get flamed for saying this) you probably ought to pick something else up that will be cheaper and easier to make more capable.
 
There are several Waggy axles out there. There are driver's side drop, and pass side drop. You want the driver's side drop. Centered and off ceantered 44's, centered is what you want, and some of the waggs had AMC 20's in the rear, big 'ol round thing.

I bought front and rear dana 44's from an '86 Waggy for under $150... I bought gears, hubs, and rebuild kits fro under $1000. I put a full-spool in the rear, and a lock-rite up front for under $500. So, all together I had less than $2000 with install, brakes, and lockers... This was on my MJ, and I went with leaf springs in the front. There are kits out there to weld on brackets for the Coils, and Jeep ZJ links. Some have also cut the mounts off of there existing axles and re-mounted on the Waggys.

The Waggy axles are 6 on 5.5 lug. Many used nice 6 lug wheels out there.
 
Got waggy axles in mine. Pick them up off craiglist for 150 bucks for front and rear. The rear waggy is narrow then the matching front. I got spacers in the rear to make up the differance. I got about $2000 into my axles. Regear them to 5.13, spool in rear, lock rite in front, bearing kits front and rear. New seals in front and u-joints. New ball joints, all tie rod ends, turn the old rotors, ran the old pads, bought reman calipers since they where 18 bucks a side. Rear brakes I took them off my scout 44 I had in it at one time. Axles I got where very nice shape but went threw them anyways. Had used the old brackets from org. axle at first. Since then I made new ones.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Nice build but it seems like alot of time and money for not a whole lot of benefit over what you already have.
So i guess the general suggestion to stay with HP30 and upgrade the axles, and go easy on the gas paddle.
 
My advice has always been this.

If you NEED more strength than the dana 30, then you need a 60.

If you're breaking 30 parts, you'll break 44 parts just the same, and by the time you upgrade the 44 to be substantially stronger than a 30 (i.e. warns and CTM's), then you could have had a 60 anyway.

So, for 35's I say just upgrade the shafts and maybe jump to a HP30, carry a set of spares, and be conscious of what you are doing. No bouncing.
 
I went the 44 route on the last ZJ. Built them nice and solid with all the top quality parts out there and it would have been more feasible and worthwhile to have gone to Dana 60's. Cody and Techno have brought up some good points and coming from those who have done it in the past...stick with a HP30 and do a bit of work to it. They are plenty strong if you know what you are doing. Skip the 44's, I will never do them again. For the amount of time and money invested in them to be only marginally stronger than what I had to begin with it wasnt worth it in the least. Hope that helps

Oh and Techno, good fine on those shafts ;). Very trick stuff!

RockZJ



 
Put a truss on that 30. These things will flex throwing the ring gear and pinion gear out of alignment causing them to strip out.

A truss and a heavy duty diff cover will go a long ways to getting rid of that problem.

I agree with much that has been said here. Build the 30, and enjoy the lighter weight. If you break it, go find a 60.

I've built mine up quite a ways and still plan on swapping 44 outers onto it. I have everything but the bolt patterns worked out.
 
I'm in the process of swapping out my stock 30 with a high pinion 30 out of and XJ I pulled this summer from a junkyard for $175. I've regeared it to 410 gears. Ive had a 87 waggy front and rear sitting in my back yard for years. What i'm doing is going with some Reid Racing outers thats allowing me to use the waggies spindles,outer 19 spline stubs, (mating up to some yj/tj axles) bearings, and brakes. I just purchased some Warn hubs. I hope to get it assembled this weekend. So basically it a hybrid 30/44.
 
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