[zjsheller]

Here's my problem. Trans wouldn't shift up in my 96 4.0 ZJ last week and upon pulling the dipstick I discovered aerated fluid in the trans. Fluid levels are OK. Fluid looked and smelled OK (it was changed less than 10k ago).
In doing some research I have seen others with a similar problem and the culprit was a blocked trans cooler. Thinking I was going this route, I pulled the cooler and it seems fine. No blockage. I can blow through it freely.
So I then decided to check for what kind of flow I had to the cooler. I started up the ZJ and let it run in neutral with the cooler taken off. I initially got what can best be described as a big burp, then nothing. Very slow trickle. I checked the flow in drive and same result.
Now my problem is I'm not confident in translating my test results into a solution to the problem!
Is there supposed to be regular, steady flow with the trans in P or N or D?
If so, how much? It certainly doesn't seem like a cooler would be too effective with this slow of flow.
If there is some kind of blockage, is it most probably in the line?
Is there a chance thats is some sort of pump in the transmission?
What should my next step be?
Thanks in advance!!

 

[95_V8_ZJ]

the flow should fill up a quart container in less than 20 seconds.. you have poor, if not zero flow. stock valve body does not flow fluid in park. modified valve body (i.e. shift kit) will flow fluid in all selections. no matter what it will flow in N. you have a blocked valve body, pump going bad, clogged filter, linkage problem, the throttle valve (TV) cable not working, it could be a number of things. did you replace the filter when u did the fresh fluid? did u use ONLY ATF+4?

edit: do you get a humming sound coming from the trans pan? itll sound like a 3 phase elctical transformer buzzing sound. if so, your pump is trying to get suction, that would most def be the filter, or no fluid in the pan. if you dont hear it, then my guess would be the pump isnt doing anything.

 

[autowizard]

Most likely a plugged filter but on my 95 the check valve in the line was frozen so i fabbed up some new lines and the problem went away, this is a rare problem but it does happen

 

[zjsheller]

Great!
Thanks for the direction.
Sounds like the next step is to remove the pan and check the filter.
I'll keep you posted on what I find.
Thanks again for the assistance.

 

[zjsheller]

the flow should fill up a quart container in less than 20 seconds.. you have poor, if not zero flow. stock valve body does not flow fluid in park. modified valve body (i.e. shift kit) will flow fluid in all selections. no matter what it will flow in N. you have a blocked valve body, pump going bad, clogged filter, linkage problem, the throttle valve (TV) cable not working, it could be a number of things. did you replace the filter when u did the fresh fluid? did u use ONLY ATF+4?

edit: do you get a humming sound coming from the trans pan? itll sound like a 3 phase elctical transformer buzzing sound. if so, your pump is trying to get suction, that would most def be the filter, or no fluid in the pan. if you dont hear it, then my guess would be the pump isnt doing anything.

I haven't heard a sound.
To add a little more backround, I've noticed that the rps fluctuate in OD. Not a lot, but say 2000-2200 rpm. I attributed it to the larger tires and the trans trying to get in the correct gear, but if it's a symptom that points to a solution of the problem, i thought I'd let you know.
Thanks again!

 

[zjsheller]

Well, the filter seems ok. IMO.
What should the next step be?
How do I test the pump? Heck, where is the pump?
Here's the filter for your opinion:

 

[95_V8_ZJ]

that filter is covered in shavings... cut the edge around the metal part the whole way around and open it up, ill bet its filled with metal... the pump is behind the converter. you have to remove the trans to get at it. at this point, idk. the thing i would do, is put in a new filter, start it up and see if i had flow out of one of the cooler lines...

nope: just had a thought
did you do any work under the Jeep recently? exhaust? tcase? control arms? oil change? went offroading? anything unusual?
i ask because maybe one of the cooler lines are kinked, or cruhsed shut. either take off the lines at the trans (these can be a pain in the butt, get GM style fittings.. remove the check ball in the cooler line while ur at it if the following test works) and start it up with the trans in Nuetral.. (block the dang wheels, mine will jump forward while in park when i start it) see if you have any fluid coming from the trans. depending on how long you've had the pan off the trans, itll take about 8 quarts. my 42RE took 7, my 46RH took about the same, maybe one more after i drove it. now if you do have fluid coming out (a good bit, it should fill up a quart in about 10 seconds, manual says 30 seconds) you have a kinked, crushed, or clogged line. replace them all, because you dont want any debris coming back to destroy the trans.

Good Luck

EDIT: just looked at the pic again, im using a Hi Def LCD laptop screen, so... that fluid looks orange, if its not n/m.. but if ur unsure, take a cap full of new fluid and pour it next to it to compare...

Good Luck

 

[zjsheller]

The filter has an orange tinge to it but the fluid is definitely red.
None of the cooler lines are pinched or crushed. I checked that first in hopes of avoiding the pan drop.
I'll try to figure out a way to remove the lines. (Your right they look difficult to remove.) And check for blockages.
Metal shavings in the filter sounds bad. I thought the magnet in the trans pan was supposed to prevent that. Btw, checked the magnet and it doesn't seem covered in anything.
Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

 

[95_V8_ZJ]

The filter has an orange tinge to it but the fluid is definitely red.
None of the cooler lines are pinched or crushed. I checked that first in hopes of avoiding the pan drop.
I'll try to figure out a way to remove the lines. (Your right they look difficult to remove.) And check for blockages.
Metal shavings in the filter sounds bad. I thought the magnet in the trans pan was supposed to prevent that. Btw, checked the magnet and it doesn't seem covered in anything.
Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

i should confess, the lines are so easy to get off, you'll think u broke something... its a little clip that slides thru the fitting, honestly, you pull the clip and pull out the line.. now, getting that clip out without bending them is the trick, you'll see what i mean, putting them back in is also a lil bit of a task. its really simple, if you take ur time. i reused both the clips on both fittings 3 times. if you can get away without switching over to GM style trans fittings id do it, but if you do have to change them, my very reputable trans shop actually changes them over to a new style. he also does away with the check valve for converter drainback. yeah, if you park on a hill that is pointing str8 up and down, youll have a prob but otherwise its safe to remove. that same shop actually deletes the check ball as well, he just orders up the parts from ChryCo.
grab a good magnet (screw driver bit in a screwdriver might work) and wave it over those metal shavings on the filter. the filter did its job, it seems a bit odd that the mgnet in the pan didnt. was the magnet centered in the lil recess around the lil bump in the pan?

 

[zjsheller]

i should confess, the lines are so easy to get off, you'll think u broke something... its a little clip that slides thru the fitting, honestly, you pull the clip and pull out the line.. now, getting that clip out without bending them is the trick, you'll see what i mean, putting them back in is also a lil bit of a task. its really simple, if you take ur time. i reused both the clips on both fittings 3 times. if you can get away without switching over to GM style trans fittings id do it, but if you do have to change them, my very reputable trans shop actually changes them over to a new style. he also does away with the check valve for converter drainback. yeah, if you park on a hill that is pointing str8 up and down, youll have a prob but otherwise its safe to remove. that same shop actually deletes the check ball as well, he just orders up the parts from ChryCo.
grab a good magnet (screw driver bit in a screwdriver might work) and wave it over those metal shavings on the filter. the filter did its job, it seems a bit odd that the mgnet in the pan didnt. was the magnet centered in the lil recess around the lil bump in the pan?

Great advice. I'll get to removing the lines next and make sure the magnet is in its proper location.
I'll keep you posted and thanks for the input!

 

[zjsheller]

upon closer inspection, this is what the bottom of the pan looked like:

Am I screwed? Time for a new trans or rebuild?
Lots of metal down there when you look at it from somewhere that's not under your jeep!
Look forward to some advice.

Sent from my Android handheld communication device.

 

[95_V8_ZJ]

just a smidge blurry, but......
yeah, lots o shavings in there, from what i can see.
the magnet tried to do its job.
the torque converter internals are (bear with me) a bunch of fins directing fluid, essentially creating a "clutch" or "centrifugal" motion.. think yoke inside the egg. when you spin the outside, the inside catches up from friction... the internal in material can break away when you try to power brake, or try to do a sweet burnout in front of ur friends... only to realize its AWD... <-fun facts
you could be lucky in that your torque converter is just bad, but either way you will need a rebuild... its easier, quicker, and trust me, you and your Jeep will thank you in the end. i had mine rebuilt in 2 days, for 950 with shift kit, and a bunch of goodies. since you're halfway there, take out the trans, and give it to a shop, you'll save half of what you'd normally pay. im sry that this has happened to ya, but dont feel bad, i went thru 3 transmissions in 2 days with mine, which brings me to my next point: remove and check (seriously check it over for a day) your trans cooler and lines. all that metal goes/went thru the lines. that was what cause my other 2 to fail; a plugged aux cooler. if you have patience, and a decent weekend with allt he parts you could prob do it yourself and throw in a shift kit, too.. a shift kit will double the life of ur trans. install a temp gauge... you'll never have to worry about it again...
there are so many options as to what you can do...
i can eliminate a few things:
were you tryin to do burnouts, power braking, towing, or anything that required "slip" from the torque converter?
no "buzzing" sound fromt he pan or pump when you put it in drive or reverse?

the only bad thing with a Chrysler product with a bad trans is, you cant sell them, because no one wants them because they think its some unfathomable amount to fix. this is true if you take it to someone who sees you comin..

then there's option two: (only if its gold)
sell it to me...


edit: i'll bet when u run ur finger thru the shavings itll be like penny candy wrappers??

 

[zjsheller]

just a smidge blurry, but......
yeah, lots o shavings in there, from what i can see.
the magnet tried to do its job.
the torque converter internals are (bear with me) a bunch of fins directing fluid, essentially creating a "clutch" or "centrifugal" motion.. think yoke inside the egg. when you spin the outside, the inside catches up from friction... the internal in material can break away when you try to power brake, or try to do a sweet burnout in front of ur friends... only to realize its AWD... <-fun facts
you could be lucky in that your torque converter is just bad, but either way you will need a rebuild... its easier, quicker, and trust me, you and your Jeep will thank you in the end. i had mine rebuilt in 2 days, for 950 with shift kit, and a bunch of goodies. since you're halfway there, take out the trans, and give it to a shop, you'll save half of what you'd normally pay. im sry that this has happened to ya, but dont feel bad, i went thru 3 transmissions in 2 days with mine, which brings me to my next point: remove and check (seriously check it over for a day) your trans cooler and lines. all that metal goes/went thru the lines. that was what cause my other 2 to fail; a plugged aux cooler. if you have patience, and a decent weekend with allt he parts you could prob do it yourself and throw in a shift kit, too.. a shift kit will double the life of ur trans. install a temp gauge... you'll never have to worry about it again...
there are so many options as to what you can do...
i can eliminate a few things:
were you tryin to do burnouts, power braking, towing, or anything that required "slip" from the torque converter?
no "buzzing" sound fromt he pan or pump when you put it in drive or reverse?

the only bad thing with a Chrysler product with a bad trans is, you cant sell them, because no one wants them because they think its some unfathomable amount to fix. this is true if you take it to someone who sees you comin..

then there's option two: (only if its gold)
sell it to me...


edit: i'll bet when u run ur finger thru the shavings itll be like penny candy wrappers??

Well, sounds like a rebuild is in order. I guess after 286,000 miles is doesn't owe me anything.
Good thing it's not a daily driver.
Thanks again for the advice.

 

[95_V8_ZJ]

Well, sounds like a rebuild is in order. I guess after 286,000 miles is doesn't owe me anything.
Good thing it's not a daily driver.
Thanks again for the advice.

rebuild, yes. 286K, nope doesnt owe you anything... mine wouldve went that far if it wasnt for human error..

no prob, glad i could help out a fellow Jeep Owner.

 

[zjsheller]

With a break in the weather (finally!!), i decided i was going to clean the bottom end of the transmission as best I could, replace the filter, fluid, cross my fingers and see what happens.
Lo and behold look what drops out of the valve body (i think its the valve body):

I'm not a transmission guy, but I think this could be the problem. any of you Jeep transmission guys confirm this?
Thanks!!

I cant wait to get her out again...

 

[95_V8_ZJ]

thats a prob.... .it looks like one of the springs that goes behind one of the big valves on the sides of the transmission.. idk for sure, but you might get away with just gettin a new spring??

sry for the lack of detail, im no expert, but if you post up a few pics of the inside of the trans, i can edit it and show you where it goes