i'm looking at buying some axles. dana 44's out of a wgoneer or some dana 60's. i'm going to run 36 or 38 inch tire. what do you guys recommend? if i go with the 44's i wont cut because they're not wide tracks. price wise which one is better in the long run?
axles
jweiss
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i'm looking at buying some axles. dana 44's out of a wgoneer or some dana 60's. i'm going to run 36 or 38 inch tire. what do you guys recommend? if i go with the 44's i wont cut because they're not wide tracks. price wise which one is better in the long run?
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542 Posts
I looking at the same swap for my rear at the present (waggy, xj, mj D44).
Any others i should look for?
Where can you buy the new axle brackets (spring and shock)?
Or...do the old ones hold up to being cut off and rewelded?
RT
Any others i should look for?
Where can you buy the new axle brackets (spring and shock)?
Or...do the old ones hold up to being cut off and rewelded?
RT
I think the best bet for a rear would be either a 9in. or 60.
The nine would be more ideal since it is lightest and would put less stress on the "frame" reinforsed or not.
Up front a 44hp would work out best due to weight and stenght needed.
Both axles came be made to withstand up to 40's.
If you want brackets make brackets. If your going to do an axle swap you should be able to make new brackets otherwise don't bother doing an axle swap. Besides the stock brackets suck. You will want to make ones with better clearences and placements. If your creative you could make some sort of pivot or add lift to you coil cups for better flex and less bind or gaining more lift itf you need it with your current springs.
The nine would be more ideal since it is lightest and would put less stress on the "frame" reinforsed or not.
Up front a 44hp would work out best due to weight and stenght needed.
Both axles came be made to withstand up to 40's.
If you want brackets make brackets. If your going to do an axle swap you should be able to make new brackets otherwise don't bother doing an axle swap. Besides the stock brackets suck. You will want to make ones with better clearences and placements. If your creative you could make some sort of pivot or add lift to you coil cups for better flex and less bind or gaining more lift itf you need it with your current springs.
Poor boys shop at the wrecking yards?"i'm going to run 36 or 38 inch tire"
The front is a no brainer:
High pinion Dana 44 with the flat top knuckles for high clearance steering
Or high pinion 9inch (note) if you find just the right one. Alot of them will require re-tubing or :barf2: Running Ford radius arms
For the rear:
The low pinion of the 9in is no good
A high pinion in the rear will be no stronger than an 8.8 with 31 splines
So that leaves the
8.8 less weight = easier to get to stay hooked to uni-frame
GM 14 bolt
Dana 60
Me i would run the HP-D-44 and D-60
(but i hear parts for the 14 bolt are cheaper?)
You won't "find" a high pinion 9" anywhere but maybe used from a jeeper, they never came in anything. The pinion on the LP 9" is no lower than the D35, and its plenty strong, and parts are cheap and available. Although James seems to dislike them, running ford radius arms greatly simplifies the front suspension setup, but if you get a 78-79 Frontend from a bronco or f150 you can't narrow it because the tubes stop inside of the radius arm castings. If you run 38s you'll want to go ahead and get alloy shafts and CTMs for your D44, I doubt the stockers will hold. When I break my stock shafts thats what's going in. Good Luck
Tim
Tim
Here's my experiences running Dana 44's fornt and rear with ARB's for three years now. On 34's I broke nothing. On 36's I broke u-joints and that in turn wrecked the axles in the front several times. The rear shafts were both twisted about a half a spline but didn't break. On 38's I went to Warn & CTM u-joints in the front and nothing broke. This I feel is a bullet proof setup. I have yet to pull my rear shafts to see if they are twisted on the 38's. I'm going to order a set of Mosser shafts for the rear before next season. The ARB's have worked flawlessly and have about 80,000 miles on them. I carried a D60 in to the shop the other day, it took three of us and the guy who's D60 it was owes me a nut or two! I can carry my D44 by myself if I have to. The loss of ground clearance and the added weight just isn't worth it in my mind.
Clayt
Clayt
Well I would probably say to listen to Clayton since he knows what he's talking about, and if he says his rear 44 holds up just fine then I believe him, but I personally would go with a 60 rear, or 14 bolt for 38s. If a 60 can handle up to 40-44" tires, and a dana 44 can handle up to 35-37" tires, I'd rather have the axle not pushing its max... Of course I could be biased since both my ZJs have dana 60 rear axles, I'd just rather be overbuilt than pushing the limits of the drivetrain.
of course if cost is a factor then the cost of cutting down a 60 may make it not worth it to you, thus making the diff clearence point moot.
but then again it also depends on the wheeling you'll be doing.
Hal
of course if cost is a factor then the cost of cutting down a 60 may make it not worth it to you, thus making the diff clearence point moot.
but then again it also depends on the wheeling you'll be doing.
Hal
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Whats wrong with radius arms? Whats wrong with a standard 9" in the rear? You're going to hate my setup then.
Go 35 spine or more in the 9" rear and I doubt you'll break it.
HP44 fronts can be built to take a lot of abuse. Shafts, ctm, etc can make them strong enough to handle 40's.
Cody
Go 35 spine or more in the 9" rear and I doubt you'll break it.
HP44 fronts can be built to take a lot of abuse. Shafts, ctm, etc can make them strong enough to handle 40's.
Cody
Whats wrong with radius arms?
They bind up when flexing thus stressing components and limiting axle ability to freely travel.
Whats wrong with a standard 9" in the rear?
Low pinion placement and if i remember correctly three different types of construction and material in housing and third member, of which only one is rated strong enough for 4x4 use.
You're going to hate my setup then.
I do not. It is yours and as such i respect it and your effort.
Go 35 spine or more in the 9" rear and I doubt you'll break it.
With the 4.0 and rationally sized tires probably not.
HP44 fronts can be built to take a lot of abuse. Shafts, ctm, etc can make them strong enough to handle 40's.
All but the knuckles.
But i believe there is a heavy duty replacement for this also.
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3,447 Posts
fair enough. But I believe your reference applies to radius arms in stock form. Apples to apples, our 4 link's arn't any better out of the box--probably worse. There is more than 1 way to set up radius arms just as there is more than 1 way to set up link suspensions.
the low pinion isn't that big of a deal in my oppinion. Our WB is long enough that driveline angle isn't a problem, and I have no issues running the bottom of a cast housing against a rock. I realize there are different versions of the 9", some of which are not ideal, but even those can be made to fit 35 spline and bigger setups or retubed etc and you would still be in under the cost of a d60. For the price of a HP 3rd, I could carry 3 replacements. the only advantage to the HP is the pinion, which is only slightly vulnerable, is moved up 3 inches.
Appreciated. and your oppinion is appreciated as well. don't take this as argumentative.
the 4.0 and 54" dunlops? have you seen a 35 spline 9" shaft? Take note of all the 60 shafts that go in competitions and take note of all the 9" 35 splines shafts that go. i havn't seen the fire ant take out a shaft--or any of the currie built rigs but I've seen plenty of 60 shafts go--especially the 30(31?) spline shafts. I have the v8 w/ 31 spline shafts, 37" tires, and if I break one of those, I'll be surprised. the 60 amounts to a land anchor unless you get some big meats underneath the thing.
I do believe a hp 44 can be built to be as strong as a standard 60 in the front. Also, if you want to go overboard you can go to 40 spline 9" shafts that would take a herculean effort to snap.
I agree with moabzj.
Radius arms work real well as long as you design them right. Stock ford ones do suck though unless wristed. I have made 3 different sets of 3-link radius arm suspensions. 2 good ones and one bad one(this one was a 4-link raidus setup.
All flexed well but the 3-linked ones showed the most flex and least bind.
There's nothing wrong with a LP 9 either. Just your driveshaft is more vulerable. And if you actually use you vehical where the drivshaft would get banged up, you would be smart enough to put in a beefy one so not to worry about it.
Radius arms work real well as long as you design them right. Stock ford ones do suck though unless wristed. I have made 3 different sets of 3-link radius arm suspensions. 2 good ones and one bad one(this one was a 4-link raidus setup.
All flexed well but the 3-linked ones showed the most flex and least bind.
There's nothing wrong with a LP 9 either. Just your driveshaft is more vulerable. And if you actually use you vehical where the drivshaft would get banged up, you would be smart enough to put in a beefy one so not to worry about it.
My high pinion full floater ford nine inch front with 35 spline axles, Detroit, 1 ton outers and 1/2 ton chevy brakes cost me $5k. Just thought I would mention a price for a built-to-order HP nine. You do occasionally find them for sale on the hardcore boards, but still going for at least $3k-$4k. Pricey....
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3,447 Posts
Here is a link that talks about just how disadvantaged the 9" axle is compared to Dana axles.
http://performanceunlimited.com/illustrations/gears.html
Cody
http://performanceunlimited.com/illustrations/gears.html
Cody
You need to go back and re-read that... you got the wrong end of the stick!MoabZJ said:
Differentials have so many different aspects to consider that many times the most important aspects are overlooked by trivial theory. The Ford 9" is usually considered the underdog with it's long lasting reputation questioned as to the why it got that way. Many times the answer is not sufficient and lacks the whole story. Although the Ford 9" is considered the most versatile differential due to it's light weight, inherent strength and economical components, there is a lot more to it than that. No, the Ford 9" is not "the best there is", but close. It's good points are often overlooked...
In fact, they compare the DANA 70 with the Ford 9 inch! Now THAT is a complement.
And then go to http://www.sunrayengineering.com/nine.html for even more info.
Thanks for the link.... it goes to show, the nine is the best!
Well
This is quite the thread :smile:
Anyway back to my point.
The pinion is to low.
I am not hardcore
So the only time my ZJ has been on a strap
I was in a pile of boulders when my rear pinion decided to simulate a jack hammer. Not good! i shut it down and demanded a strap.
:spam:
I was bewildered and Twister II was embarrassed.
So a reasonably placed pinion was located in a ($55.00) GM 12 bolt Truck Diff. Which was then cut down to 2" over stock, converted to semi floating Dutchman axles with dfisc brakes / full detroit and 4.88 gears. Which is now under the rear as a foundation for larger tires, (Up to true 34" size).,
I hope Twister II never has to be straped again as this has cost me a few nickels and dimes.
This is quite the thread :smile:
Anyway back to my point.
The pinion is to low.
I am not hardcore
So the only time my ZJ has been on a strap
I was in a pile of boulders when my rear pinion decided to simulate a jack hammer. Not good! i shut it down and demanded a strap.
:spam:
I was bewildered and Twister II was embarrassed.
So a reasonably placed pinion was located in a ($55.00) GM 12 bolt Truck Diff. Which was then cut down to 2" over stock, converted to semi floating Dutchman axles with dfisc brakes / full detroit and 4.88 gears. Which is now under the rear as a foundation for larger tires, (Up to true 34" size).,
I hope Twister II never has to be straped again as this has cost me a few nickels and dimes.
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