TTORA(Toyota Territory Offroad Association) just got back from Moab. A 2004 Tacoma slipped off the edge of Lions Back. The person driving was the NoCal President. He resigned after admitting was drinking(and I guess was drunk) at the time of the accident. At the other off road forum I go to(yotatech), there is a big rule against drinking on the trails. What is your input? http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52889

I'm firm against drinking on the trails, because something like that could happen. While you are offroading you are doing stuff that is a lot more technical than on the streets, so a couple drinks may put you over. What is NAGCA's stance on it?[smilie=bal_ask.gif]

Here are some pics
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6cc28b3127cce8fdb8ab6295a00000016102AatmrJu3YsR
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6cc28b3127cce8fdb8ab4295800000016102AatmrJu3YsR
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid220/p5c9169fb5e344cfa7c4d85650213ed5b/ebb11024.jpg

I barely drink as it is...but yeah..drinking and driving on the trail is just plain stuupiddddd

i agree. i only drink after we set up camp and night wheeling is finished.

What sucks is that wasnt even Mike's truck, it was his gf's :( at least they are ok.

i agree. i only drink after we set up camp and night wheeling is finished.

x2. that or they ride passenger...never any drinking and driving.

Yea, deff. no drinking on the trail. Thats just a recipe for disaster. Granted Im 18 so Im not supposed to be drinking anyway (atleast thats what the law seems to want me to believe :mrgreen: ), but after camp is set up and every one is just chillin out I could see crackin a few. Not gettin hammered so that your screwd for the next day but just some social drinking. Im not big into drinking in the first place anyway, not compared to the average guy my age. Its just not super fun to me to get wasted ALL the time.

Drinking and driving is never OK

that guy is an embarrassment to wheelers all over the world and is pathetic

Drinking and driving is never OK

that guy is an embarrassment to wheelers all over the world and is pathetic

Everyone makes mistakes, but yes, he shouldnt have been drinking and driving. Especially off road, thats just not acceptable. Still I dont believe we should look down on him like he's some moron thats below us (besides the fact he was drivin a Tacoma :mrgreen: ). He messed up and paid the consequences, he's lucky no one died. But he admitted that he screwd up so I dont think we should be too harsh on him. Im sure he's already beating himself up enough, or his g/f is :mrgreen:

Yeah I don't think we should look downn on him, but rather learn from his mistakes. He did the right thing as far as buying his GF a new truck and stepping down as president of the NoCal region. Its good to hear that everyone has stated that they rather drink at camp than on the trials. [smilie=bal_cool.gif]

well i think you should drink at camp. coz when i was 16 me and my dad took my granddad 1978 4x4 chavy out. one night and we were drinking and i put off a 10ft bank and in a river/ creek . and got in to deep **** the next day. so yes don't drink and 4x4

NO DRINKING ON TRAILS.
Most Off Road Vehicle Parks prohibit it on trails.

Sorry didnt mean to make it look like i was looking down on him...but i do stand by what i say, that makes all wheelers look bad and lessens our sport in the eyes of others. Glad the guy and his GF are alright of course. Pretty amazing they just walked out!

I'm tired, its finals week, and I am pulling an allnighter so bear with me

Drinking and driving (at the same time) on the roads is illegal... that said, most off-road trails that are "historical" are either maintained or not maintained "highways" or country roads. That means the rules that apply to your local highway, roads and freeways also apply on the trail. Obviously private parks exist outside of these rules. And I am unsure about whether road rules also apply in state run parks. Long story short, for the most part if you are on government land, you can get into legal trouble for drinking. Ever seen the sheriff's Cherokee on the Rubicon? Part of the reason why it was built was so they could get the drunk drivers on the trail and haul them out. So on most offroad trails, you have to obey alot of laws.

Aside from the legal stuff, I drink when I wheel. (edit... when I wheel, I drink... lol) I don’t always drink when I wheel but I usually do. When I drink, I do it outside of my vehicle, usually at camp and I never consume enough alcohol to either cloud my judgment OR for me to have a high enough BAC to get a DUI. And when I say I don't consume enough to get into trouble, I don't mean just under the limmit. I mean like well within the ballpark of almost stone cold sober. If you needed something to compare me to, think of having a beer or a glass of wine with your dinner. You drink it, you eat, thenyou drive home and you don't even give it a second thought because whatever you consumed isn't affecting your abillity to drive or make good judgements.

Am I doing anything illegal? I’m sure I’m doing something wrong by consuming liquor in a public place (middle of the forest) but other than that I don’t think there is anything else. And if somebody had a breath analyzer on the trail, if I were to blow into it, I would blow in at way under the legal limmit.

Is it wrong or immoral to do so? I’m sure somebody can present a rational argument saying that its immoral but whatever...

I wheel to have fun.... I tread lightly, I pack out more than what I pack in and generally I am a nice guy. So if I kick 1 or 2 back before I plow over some rocks, is it a big deal?

PS: and if you get REALLY upset over this, my heep is going up on jackstands for probably 6 months... So I won't be on the trails in my veicle for awhile :mrgreen:

Thats ridiculous... You guys dont do rock shots? Drive over a rock, do a shot, drive over a rock do a shot....

Really though, the issue is not drinking, so much as it being intoxicated. Dont give me that "any alcohol is intoxicated stuff", a beer with lunch is not going to impair anyones judgement or reactions times enough to be a danger. Now, that being said, i never drink when i wheel. No cupholders in a cj. :mrgreen:
This is a touchy subject in any situation, but we need to be even more vigilant as off-roaders. Everythime something like this happens, its just more ammo for the dicktards that wast to ban us from all off roading on public land. Additionally no dringking inside a vehicle. PERIOD. It just makes us look like bunch of yahoo redneck a**holes.
This is a responsibility issue. If you are going to enjoy a libation with lunch or a beer during a break, then I see no problem. If you are going to be doing kegstands and tequila shots every time your jeep stops, then you should be strapped to your hood in the desert sun till you're sober. I can gaurentee after that punishment, you'll never drink again. If a person is not responsible enough to be sober while wheeling, then that person is also not responsible enough to be wheeling at all.

-Dante

Thats ridiculous... You guys dont do rock shots? Drive over a rock, do a shot, drive over a rock do a shot....

Really though, the issue is not drinking, so much as it being intoxicated. Dont give me that "any alcohol is intoxicated stuff", a beer with lunch is not going to impair anyones judgement or reactions times enough to be a danger. Now, that being said, i never drink when i wheel. No cupholders in a cj. :mrgreen:
This is a touchy subject in any situation, but we need to be even more vigilant as off-roaders. Everythime something like this happens, its just more ammo for the dicktards that wast to ban us from all off roading on public land. Additionally no dringking inside a vehicle. PERIOD. It just makes us look like bunch of yahoo redneck a**holes.
This is a responsibility issue. If you are going to enjoy a libation with lunch or a beer during a break, then I see no problem. If you are going to be doing kegstands and tequila shots every time your jeep stops, then you should be strapped to your hood in the desert sun till you're sober. I can gaurentee after that punishment, you'll never drink again. If a person is not responsible enough to be sober while wheeling, then that person is also not responsible enough to be wheeling at all.

-Dante

If you are drinking beer in your rig why would you set it down in a cupholder, one hand on the wheel and one beer in the other hand. J/K :lol:

Thats ridiculous... You guys dont do rock shots? Drive over a rock, do a shot, drive over a rock do a shot....

Really though, the issue is not drinking, so much as it being intoxicated. Dont give me that "any alcohol is intoxicated stuff", a beer with lunch is not going to impair anyones judgement or reactions times enough to be a danger. Now, that being said, i never drink when i wheel. No cupholders in a cj. :mrgreen:
This is a touchy subject in any situation, but we need to be even more vigilant as off-roaders. Everythime something like this happens, its just more ammo for the dicktards that wast to ban us from all off roading on public land. Additionally no dringking inside a vehicle. PERIOD. It just makes us look like bunch of yahoo redneck a**holes.
This is a responsibility issue. If you are going to enjoy a libation with lunch or a beer during a break, then I see no problem. If you are going to be doing kegstands and tequila shots every time your jeep stops, then you should be strapped to your hood in the desert sun till you're sober. I can gaurentee after that punishment, you'll never drink again. If a person is not responsible enough to be sober while wheeling, then that person is also not responsible enough to be wheeling at all.

-Dante

If you are drinking beer in your rig why would you set it down in a cupholder, one hand on the wheel and one beer in the other hand. J/K :lol:
Because i have whats called a manual transmission. There is a stick thing that comes out of the floor, and i have to move it when i want to shift gears. They used to put those in jeeps... :D ;)

Ouch!!

Because i have whats called a manual transmission. There is a stick thing that comes out of the floor, and i have to move it when i want to shift gears. They used to put those in jeeps... :D ;)

Ouch!!

HAHAHAHAHA
LMAO!!!!!

Because i have whats called a manual transmission. There is a stick thing that comes out of the floor, and i have to move it when i want to shift gears. They used to put those in jeeps... :D ;)

Ouch!!

HAHAHAHAHA
LMAO!!!!!

ok ok, Lets keep this on topic, sorry to semi-hijack....

Thats ridiculous... You guys dont do rock shots? Drive over a rock, do a shot, drive over a rock do a shot....

Really though, the issue is not drinking, so much as it being intoxicated. Dont give me that "any alcohol is intoxicated stuff", a beer with lunch is not going to impair anyones judgement or reactions times enough to be a danger. Now, that being said, i never drink when i wheel. No cupholders in a cj. :mrgreen:
This is a touchy subject in any situation, but we need to be even more vigilant as off-roaders. Everythime something like this happens, its just more ammo for the dicktards that wast to ban us from all off roading on public land. Additionally no dringking inside a vehicle. PERIOD. It just makes us look like bunch of yahoo redneck a**holes.
This is a responsibility issue. If you are going to enjoy a libation with lunch or a beer during a break, then I see no problem. If you are going to be doing kegstands and tequila shots every time your jeep stops, then you should be strapped to your hood in the desert sun till you're sober. I can gaurentee after that punishment, you'll never drink again. If a person is not responsible enough to be sober while wheeling, then that person is also not responsible enough to be wheeling at all.

-Dante

If you are drinking beer in your rig why would you set it down in a cupholder, one hand on the wheel and one beer in the other hand. J/K :lol:
Because i have whats called a manual transmission. There is a stick thing that comes out of the floor, and i have to move it when i want to shift gears. They used to put those in jeeps... :D ;)

You cant shift with a beer in your hand ;) Oh well get a real Jeep and then maybe you wont have to shift gears :lol: :lol:

Now that we have established that everyone should be sober on the trail what are your opinions of guns on the trail?

Anyone like to stop on the trial and do a little target practice with their hand gun or rifle.

Do you feel safer with your piece nearby in case you run across a meth lab or pot farm in the woods? Heck what about that over zealous mountain lion with your girlfriend on his menu.

I don't have a problem with a firearm on the trail. As long as safe gun handling is being used. I would fell a hell of a lot better on the trail if I had an handgun. I've seen some weird people on the trails. Only 6 more months till I get an handgun and my ccw

Id say guns are fine to have on the trail so long as you arent using them WHILE your drinking. As long as those two are also kept seperate than sure, its a blast taking a break to shoot the heck out of something (not a human) lol.

You guys in Washington and those Meth Labs. When I was stationed on Ft Lewis, we would walk in the woods for our post beautification, to find Meth Labs. Then they'd call in the Enviroment people.

Back on subject yes weapons are a must. I mean I use them daily. As long as everything is legal. I mean dont go taken your fully auto AK to Mt. Rainier. [smilie=bal_ask.gif]

Now that we have established that everyone should be sober on the trail what are your opinions of guns on the trail?


I will eventually buy something to cary with my when I am in the back country and I feel much safer when somebody in the group carries something. In way northern California you have methlabs and pot farms, in the Sierra Nevada Moutnains you have bears and mountain lions. Ya know 99 out of 100 times you won't see any of that stuff but that 1 time, having something with you will make you feel better.

The way I feel is "It is better to have it and not need, then to need it and not have it"

You guys got nothing on arkansas with the meth labs

Ok, obviously we've covered the drinking and driving (or wheeling) so I'm not going to poke a dead subject. As for guns on the trail, as of right now I don't carry one, for one simple reason, I don't have any of mine in my possesion currently. Now I'm a small town boy, in fact town with a wal-mart is a big city to me. So I'd rather have a gun in town than out of town, but thats just my preference. Now back at home I would worry about this a little more than around here, but I would like to have one to carry for mountain lines, bears, ect. But I was headed out of a trail with a few buddies of mine one day, and going in everything looked normal. On the other hand on the way out there was an old caddy sitting back in the woods about 50 yards from the head of the trail with a guy sitting in it. Not too sure what he was up to and I don't want to make any false assumptions, but normally we would have stopped to say hi and see if he needed help with anything. However with the look of the situation we didn't even slow down to wave. Thats about the only reason I would like to have a gun on the trail for, but that's just my preference. As long as they gun and ammo are kept seperate when not in use and neither of them are messed with while alcohol is being consumed, by ANYONE in the area. And there is nothing wrong with a little "joy-shooting" on breaks, just as long as you aren't shooting down trees, if ya know what I mean.

-Brian

ok how about drinking and having a gun lol

ok how about drinking and having a gun lol

I think thats been covered by myself and a few others on the post... ;)

-Brian

Concealed weapon is one thing

having to have to shoot little woodland creatures is another

I will be getting my concealed weapons permit...but they aren't allowed in national forest...so looks like I can't carry mine :(

the driver shouldn't be drinking until trailriding is done for the day. the thing thats hard for me is that drunken waddle to the outhouse at GSE to take a #2 in the dark. plus bears scare me and i can't run real fast when ive been drinkin.

http://www.xdtalk.com/gallery/data/536/medium/HPIM1030.JPG

This will be my newest toy as of tommorow. And I won't be drinking when I play... My FFL is bringing it by Tomorrow night. Found this on one of my Gun Forums. Got a sweet deal I couldn't pass up on this tricked out XD.

Springfield Armory XD40 5" Tactical
2.5# Trigger - Canyon Creek Customs
Smoothed Trigger Face - Canyon Creek Customs
CC Offset Mag Release - Canyon Creek Customs
Polished Feed Ramp - Canyon Creek Customs
Novak Big Button - Canyon Creek Customs
True-glow Fibers - Canyon Creek Customs
Don's Guide Rod
(5) 12 rd Mags w/ bumper plates
Mag Lock mag well
Polished Slide sides with matte black top
Safariland 5186 Tac Holster
(4) SpeedComp Mag Holders
I-Shot Range Bag
Tru-grip traction grip :-P

I will be getting my concealed weapons permit...but they aren't allowed in national forest...so looks like I can't carry mine :(

I think you might be refering to National Parks not National Forest. If you can carry in your state then you can carry in National Forest in your state....unless your state has a specific law saying different. You can get a wealth of info on concealed carry here www.packing.org

Mistakes happen?!?! Drinking and driving is not a fawking mistake! Its an extremely ignorant thing to do whether on the trail or Interstate 40. I have no empathy for this guy whatsoever.

I will be getting my concealed weapons permit...but they aren't allowed in national forest...so looks like I can't carry mine :(

I think you might be refering to National Parks not National Forest. If you can carry in your state then you can carry in National Forest in your state....unless your state has a specific law saying different. You can get a wealth of info on concealed carry here www.packing.org

I think you maybe right. I may have confused them. AZ has some good carry laws(glad Im out of CA). Parking.org is a good sight. I can't wait to get my Glock!

Save the drinking for camp after all driving (road, trail, whatever) is done for the day! Nothing like a cold beer and a warm campfire with friends. As for the guns, I would feel more comfortable if I had one what with all the crazies around nowadays but, there are soooo many different laws that, I don't know if I will ever want to deal with 'em. I just carry a good size pocket knife or two (at least one all the time) and a mini hatchet in the Jeep.

I just carry a good size pocket knife or two (at least one all the time) and a mini hatchet in the Jeep.

But if you show up at a gun fight with your pocket knife I can gurantee the results won't be in your favor. :-|

NC is not that hard of a place to obtain a CCW http://www.packing.org/state/

Good point on the knife at a gun fight but, Beter than nothing in my way of thinking. :mrgreen:

Just looked at AZ laws...and I can carry in National Forest [smilie=bal_cool.gif] . Now I just have to turn 21 :-x